Lee Elder

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Posts by Lee Elder

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  25

  PET OWNERS! New BAN from the Watchtower?!

  by Focus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  [for the full articles that were posted here, please now see:.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=18803.

  thank you, brothers (sisters even)].

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  Lee Elder

  Nice parody - kudos!

  Lee
• 
  87

  Mother's Letter To Start Off The New Year...

  by silentlambs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i received this letter from my mother over the weekend, it came with a card and a special note to my children.

  i plan to let them read it someday, not today..... silentlambs.

  december 20,2001 .

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  Lee Elder

  Hello Bill,

  I agree with the sentiments of Sam B. - I believe that it would
  likely be a mistake to send the letter you wrote. It is very
  difficult to advise others about how to handle these kinds of
  situations. No one knows your parents better than you do. You have
  unique insights about their personality and makeup. I think its
  important that you respect their right to believe as they wish and
  that whatever form of communication you choose, it conveys that
  you love them.

  There is also the potential for you to benefit from the experiences
  of others who have been down this path. There are some very noteworthy
  comments in this thread and you can probably glean some helpful ideas.

  In my own case, my JW parents are divorced and one is remarried. I began a gradual process of sharing information with them while I was still an elder. As a result, one of them walked away about the same time that I did. The other has stayed but has become a very liberal JW with many doubts and a streak of independence and dissidence.

  Your "coming out" experience on behalf of the "silent lambs" may have made it difficult or impossible to gradually try and help your family members unless you had planned all of this well in advance. Some brothers have effected elaborate maneuvers to “rescue” their JW family members, but it is no easy task.

  I have found that I have been able to set down and do rapid "deprogramming" with younger JWs in just one session with a little follow up. This is not the case with older JWs and I'm far from convinced that this is even in their best interest. It is an enormous undertaking for a person in their late 60's or older to try and build a new circle of friends, risk important relationships and question and perhaps rebuild or remodel their belief system.

  It is a sad reality that the WTS discourages its members from having anything to do with family members who question or leave the organization. Your parents, my parents, and anyone else thrown into this situation is likely to feel some resentment towards the family member who precipitated this kind of disruption in their life. A healthy dose of empathy is in order and beneficial. When that is present, one can hope that at the very least a JW parent would come to respect the conscientious stand taken by their adult child and lacking that, “agree to disagree”, while continuing to demonstrate love and respect for each other.

  Warmest regards,

  Lee
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  20

  ZERO FOUND THIS-ELDER'S MEETING

  by ashitaka in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  zero did all the work and found this.

  just wanted to post it on a thread, because some lurkers might not want to go off site to look at stuff.

  hats off to zero.. .

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  Lee Elder

  Utterly repugnant - so glad not to be an elder anymore. The
  WTS leadership is delusional and that creates the foundation
  for their use of well defined mind control techniques to
  manipulate the elders and the publishers. What a disgusting
  mess they have made. I don't know if anyone is capable of cleaning
  it up without destroying it.

  I am very glad that I got my family and some of my friends out
  when I did.
• 
  6

  Elder Talk Part 1 - Remembering

  by Lee Elder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  lets talk about the elders, circuit overseers and district overseers youve dealt with.

  the good, the bad, the ugly, the stupid, etc.

  just go ahead and unload both barrels; reload if you want to.. then in a future thread we can discuss how to drain the energy from these memories so that you remember without reliving.

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  Lee Elder

  O.K. – let’s talk about the elders, circuit overseers and district overseers you’ve dealt with. The good, the bad, the ugly, the stupid, etc. Just go ahead and unload both barrels; reload if you want to.

  Then in a future thread we can discuss how to drain the energy from these memories so that you remember without reliving. There are some simple and effective techniques to recover from post traumatic distress.

  I want to add that I’ve read some remarkable posts in the two threads listed below. I wish there was more serious, quality discussion like this.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=17907&site=3

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=17880&site=3
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  17

  To: Borgfree / Elder Culpability

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi borgfree: on freefallins post you noted the following, i know there are some serving as elders etc.

  who may be decent people apart from the wt.

  however, the people they hurt by enforcing the wt doctrines are just as hurt as if done by an unloving elder.

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  Lee Elder

  Hello Amnesian:

  It's folks like you that give us "Watchtower apostates" a bad
  name ;-)

  Seriously though, you should consider taking a deep breath
  and searching out the middle ground. Don't be like those former
  JWs, that Ray Franz describes as "exchanging one form of extremism
  for another."

  There are many fine elders in the WTS at various stages in their
  spiritual jounrney who act as powerful voices of moderation in
  their congregations by protecting the flock from radical, stupid
  elders who wrecklessly impose their whims on the publishers. In my
  case, the "straw that broke the camels back" was when the body of
  elders wanted to know the last time that I had disfellowshipped a young person.

  I have left many good friends and a number of family members behind
  in the WTS. The mind control and their personal circumstances and
  beliefs hold them prisoner. I hope and pray for compassionate guards
  and wardens.

  Better yet, I hope that moderates take control of the governing body
  and truly reform the WTS and open all of the prison gates. That may
  take a very long time to happen, if ever, but one thing is for sure.
  If all of the balanced, loving older men resign - things will get worse for those we love and change will never happen.

  Best regards,

  Lee

  I think we have to respect the choices that other elders make. In the end, we all accept the natural consequences of our choices. I see nothing to gain by second guessing others in this regard and hope that others don't judge me for way the I handled my situation. I did the best that I could, as I'm sure you did too.

  Boy, LE, do I ever disagree with this.

  This kind of reasoning can only be justified when one's choices affect only him as the chooser. That's not the case with elders. These men stay in the business of judging others---their hearts, their motives, their intentions, no less!--- and affecting the very course of our entire lives but are not to be judged by us? Rubbish!

  Elders who remain such for the WTS, no matter how well-intentioned and decent they perceive themselves to be, are as guilty of perpetuating egregious abuse and inflicting monstrous damage on others--- no matter how thoughtfully they claim to execute such--- as the wicked elder who feels no need absolution for his rotteness. It is unconscionable to justify carrying out atrocities on trusting innocents by claiming to do so in the service of some greater cause. To suggest that they shouldn't be judged by us sadly smacks of the same type "counsel" the Society excels at dispensing to inflict guilt on the multitude for believing their lying eyes.

  -AMNESIAN
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  17

  To: Borgfree / Elder Culpability

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi borgfree: on freefallins post you noted the following, i know there are some serving as elders etc.

  who may be decent people apart from the wt.

  however, the people they hurt by enforcing the wt doctrines are just as hurt as if done by an unloving elder.

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  Lee Elder

  Hello Amazing,

  You wrote:

  "I am not sure how to judge current JW Elders who are no longer JWs in their hearts."

  Why judge individuals at all? From a Christian perspective, that role
  belongs to Jesus. From a legal perspective that role belongs to a jury.

  Some of these folks are helping and can play an important role in
  moving the organization to where it needs to be. If I could have stomached it, I would have stayed longer. Most really do their very best. In some ways I still feel like I betrayed some of the members of my congregation by leaving them in the hands of oppressive wolves.

  I think we have to respect the choices that other elders make. In the
  end, we all accept the natural consequences of our choices. I see nothing to gain by second guessing others in this regard and hope that
  others don't judge me for way the I handled my situation. I did the best that I could, as I'm sure you did too.

  Best regards,

  Lee
• 
  2

  U.U.'s - what I've observed

  by Lee Elder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  shortly after i resigned as an elder, i attended a number.

  of meetings at a local unitarian universalist church.. i don't feel any pressing need to join another organization.. if i did, however, i would seriously consider this one.. it is a safe place to recover from a negative experience.

  with organized religion.

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  Lee Elder

  Shortly after I resigned as an elder, I attended a number
  of meetings at a local Unitarian Universalist church.

  I don't feel any pressing need to join another organization.
  If I did, however, I would seriously consider this one.
  It is a safe place to recover from a negative experience
  with organized religion.

  One of the local ministers, an atheist, asked me to speak
  to the local congregation about Jehovah's Witnesses and
  blood. It was an interesting experience.

  There is an incredible diversity of beliefs within this
  community and some of their meetings feel more like a lecture
  in a college classroom.

  The U.U.'s have more college graduates, on a percentage basis,
  than any other religion in the U.S. - these are intelligent,
  balanced, open minded, skeptical people.

  On the downside, it didn't feel like a religious experience to me.
  However, there is a sense of community and some religious people to
  be found in the group, as well as respect and admiration for higher
  principles and teachings of all faiths.

  I am very impressed with their model and suspect that in the future
  other religions may move to the left as they learn from the U.U.'s.
  It is a religious system capable of sustaining peace.

  One of the things I admire about many JW's is their desire to search for knowledge. I would like to see the WTS grow into an organization
  with a thirst for truth and open to the free flow of knowledge, ideas and respect for its members.

  At present the WTS is a dungeon for those with intellect and an inquiring mind. It will probably remain as it is for a very long time.

  Lee
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  13

  How to help an active jw to go out??

  by Nicolas in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one of my sister who is a jw is still trying to keep contact with us and she's is supposed to shun us.

  the problem is that i don't know if i want to see her again, we have almost nothing in common and i see her just once a year but she continue to send us letters at every months and she always told us that she love us.

  i would like to do something to make her realize that the wbts doesn't have the truth but i know that she will consider me as an apostate if i say something bad about the jw.. black holes are where god divided by zero.

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  Lee Elder

  Nicolas,

  I believe it can be helpful to consider what your motivation is for helping your sister to leave the WTS? When viewing her circumstances, do you sincerely believe that it is in her best interest to leave the WTS as this time? If you were successful in convincing her to leave, are you prepared to make a substantial contribution of your time to provide the emotional support she will require during recovery?

  If the answer to these questions is yes, then you should begin a dialogue with her on those issues you believe she would be the most sensitive to.

  Lee
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  66

  ex-JW Christians Suck!

  by mikepence in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there, i said it.. how can you leave one brainwashing controlling world view and dive right into another?!.

  duh!!!.

  see http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=17131&site=3 for a great example of why they suck.. aaaaaarrrrrrgggghhhh!.

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  Lee Elder

  Hi Mike,

  I think I know what you're driving at. Here is what I have observed. In a general sense
  Jehovah's Witnesses are individuals who tend to be given to extremes. This is especially
  true of those who voluntarily join the WTS. It follows that many former JWs, especially
  those who had voluntarily joined the WTS rather than those raised by JW parents,
  would continue to be drawn towards extremes in their post WT lives.

  One of the keys to living full, rich, meaningful lives is learning to be moderate in our
  views. This will always be a struggle for many former JWs for a host of reasons, some
  completely unrelated to their WT experience.

  For those who wish to maintain their Christian identity, there are many mainstream
  Protestant churches that strive to be moderate. Some of the Methodists, Episcopalians,
  and Congregational churches do quite nicely. Many of the other Christian groups -
  Baptists, Assembly of God, Church of the Nazarene, seem almost as radical
  as the WTS in many ways.

  We all have to travel our own path.

  Lee
• 
  20

  Attending WT meetings/functions

  by Lee Elder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been inactive for over 4 years now but i'm still attached though - loosely.. i will occassionally attend a meeting or portion of an assembly or convention.. i get a mixed reception at these gatherings.

  generally my experience has.

  been that the larger the group, the more inclined i am to run into some who.

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  Lee Elder

  I've been inactive for over 4 years now but I'm still attached though - loosely.
  I will occassionally attend a meeting or portion of an assembly or convention.
  I get a mixed reception at these gatherings. Generally my experience has
  been that the larger the group, the more inclined I am to run into some who
  will give nasty looks or shun me. The smaller the gathering the better. The
  best functions I've attended have been the funerals of older JWs I have known
  for many decades. I have always felt welcome and been treated very well
  on these occassions. The bulk of attendees are much older and have mellowed
  a bit in their views and I think the occassion probably causes them to reflect
  on the nearness of their own deaths and diminished confidence in the WTS
  predictions regarding the "imminent" paradise. They don't seem to be in any
  mood to "shun" or be nasty.

  This might be an indication of a good time to approach JW family members or
  friends concerning the truth about "the truth", if that is something you feel
  you should do.

  I'm interested in knowing if others have observed this peculiarity regarding
  JWs as well.

  Lee